Emma Canalese is a multi-hyphenate artistic force to be reckoned with. I feel lucky to have gotten to know Emma by working with her for two of my summers in college at Paper Mill Playhouse’s Summer Conservatory. We got the chance to chat over Zoom, and we talked about everything from the theatre company she created right before COVID-19 hit, the unexpected turn her life took in her 30s, and the invaluable lessons we could all learn from her. This piece is half article, half podcast! It’s a choose-your-own-adventure interview. Listen and/or read through some of the best moments from my conversation with Emma.

How would you identify yourself as an artist?

Ooooh that’s a good question. I think of myself as a creator, in the sense that I don’t pigeonhole myself into one place anymore. Certainly from my own work, I now feel myself looking at it from so many different angles that it’s hard to say I’m just this or just that. So I’ve kind of landed in this place of “creator”, because I love directing, I love writing, and I do that a lot now. I also do love acting still, and in fact, with the theatre company I started I was supposed to be in a play because I felt like I could serve the play well as an actor in that. I guess in the last two years though, I’ve done a lot more of directing and writing than anything else, and also choreographing.

Could you talk about your journey, how you got to where you are now and if there are any moments in your life that stand out to you as turning points?

For sure. I can’t remember a time when I didn’t want to do this. My grandmother had a ballet school in my hometown where I grew up. So I’ve been watching dance since I was 8 months old I think, cause I was born in England then went back to Australia. I genuinely cannot remember not being surrounded by it, like I have no memory of not doing it. I grew up watching dance, and I started dancing when I was three. From the time that I could do it and was aware of it I’ve been creating.

My “playing” on the playground when I was in school was getting my friends together and working on my latest production. I remember my first big production was “Cinderella and You Too” where I wrote it, I directed it, I produced it and I starred in it (laughs) as the main role of Cinderella. And I remember having this moment where we accidentally made a mistake when I was running offstage and my shoe flew up and went flying into the air and landed in the middle of the stage and it got a massive laugh. And it wasn’t planned but I remember thinking to myself “Ooh, that really worked. I’ve got to remember that!” and I was 8 or something at the time.

For a while I tried to just act and I was really miserable. Because it didn’t make me happy. I don’t like the feeling of depending on other people to give me permission to be creative. I also think I have a lot of opinions and thoughts, and so I think in a way it’s part of what I need to do to satisfy that part of myself. And also because, and I think it’s a question that all of us have to ask now is, what are the stories that I can tell that aren’t being told? You know what I mean? I found that a lot of the roles I was going out for, I was like, I don’t know any of these women. These women don’t exist. They are not my friends. Who are these women? I got really frustrated. I was like well, it’s stupid. I got depressed about it and I think I stopped trying so hard for acting because in the end I was like I don’t even know what I’m getting worked up about. I don’t even want this role. I cannot tell you how many times I went out for “prostitute with a heart of gold” and I’m not even paraphrasing, that would be the direction. And I was like who are these people?! Who are these women?!

And then my life went through a crazy period: I got sick, my marriage broke up. And when I was sick I had this moment where I was like, so what is the point of my life? What am I doing? I was back in Australia for treatment, and I was like I moved away from my family. I’m missing so much of my family and that life and experiencing them growing… I have a nephew and now a niece that was born just recently. I thought, I better really figure out what I’m doing, because I should come home if there’s no purpose to what I’m doing. Also, I now had scarring on my body in a way that I hadn’t had before because of the surgeries. And I was like well I can’t be the prostitute with a heart of gold anymore! Because I’ve got these scars! In a way it was this weird relief. Where I suddenly was like thank God they can’t call me in for that anymore. Yeah I know, isn’t that crazy? I remember having this moment where I was like ugh, well. I’m going to have to tell them I’ve got scars so guess I won’t be getting that role.

That is….you could unpack that, on so many levels.

So many levels I know right. I know.

I also went through a whole thing where my fertility was questioned and this was when I was 33 or 34, so I was still in an age where it was a question and I didn’t know if I’d be able to have children. And I was like well if my purpose is to help promote women, in the sense that— what I’m getting frustrated about, I can’t keep sitting here and getting frustrated about it if I’m not doing anything, actively, about it. If my purpose is to be able to be an example to women in the future as what they can achieve as a woman who may or may not be married, may or may not have children, may be a little older, then that’s good, actually. And that's how I can impact the next generation. If I can’t have children, then I need to at least be able to be someone they can point at and look at and say oh, I can do that. So also frankly, after going through all the physical effects that my body had to deal with, and struggling physically in a way that I had ever struggled before—I’d been so in my body with dance. And mentally, probably being a little scared for a while to really let myself go back into acting. I had this moment for a while where I was like, “If I get onstage I’m either gonna totally shut down or completely lose my mind.” And so for a while I was scared of it. I’m not really there anymore. But certainly when I first came out of chemo. And chemo affected me in a way where I couldn’t move easily for a long time. The last few years, that’s shifted. That’s why I went more and more towards the stuff I’d already done— directing. And I started writing a lot more. I suddenly felt like I had something to say now that people might want to hear. And that’s probably a story that could help someone and be important in a way where before I hadn’t really thought that what I had to say was important.

Often I find that the women who are doubting themselves, I’m like, you’re so much more qualified and you actually have so much more knowledge than you think you do and than that guy over there. It’s just that he’s got the balls to say I’m gonna do it. It’s something we have to teach ourselves and just be like: have the moment, acknowledge it, do it anyway.

Yes, yes. I feel like I watch some of my friends at school who are so much more powerful than they know. They’re just so ready. Well, and, being “ready” isn’t real. I’ve realized that. Being ready isn’t a real feeling. It’s a very rare feeling if it exists, and I doubt it exists.

I agree.

And I watch so many of my friends where I’m just sitting there like: I know. I know it’s scary because it’s easier said than done, but I just want you to do it!

Yeah, particularly if you’re a person who wants a lot and demands a lot from yourself. Because sometimes it’s the idea of: I do it, I may not do it well. That held me back for a long time. What I’ve learned over the last few years, and in a way I do actually credit my illness to this and also some of the people I worked with after that happened. I was like—who cares if I fuck it up? It’s not brain surgery. Do you know what I mean? I mean for me, kind of my thing now is: it’s not cancer! So. Ya know? I might as well do it, the worst thing that happens is it sucks. And then I just try again. And it’s being able to be okay with it sucking. Being like I tried, and now I know what and what not to do, so now I can do it better. But that’s hard. Certainly my family has expected a lot from me and not in a negative way, they just want me to achieve the best, and I think I internalized that in a way that wasn’t necessarily helpful. It got to be too much. It almost stopped me from being able to do anything.

What’s your theatre company called?

It’s very new and we just started. Literally we got our not for profit status during this whole time period. It’s called The Artist Experiment. We’re on the gram and all that stuff. We had just started posting stuff to promote ourselves in February. We were a couple weeks into it and then……COVID-19 arrived.

Screen Shot 2020-08-16 at 7.58.43 PM.png

I really want to talk about 100 Years of the History of Dance because you co-wrote it and directed it!! Could you talk about any major challenges that you faced in that show’s process, and any moments you’re particularly proud of?

It’s a little bit of a hybrid, it’s hard to say what it is. It’s definitely a play, but it also has a lot of dance. It’s about dancers but it’s not for dancers, it can be for anyone. It’s really about the stories of these choreographers' lives, so it’s a hard thing to sell because people don’t know quite where to put it, but it does really well with word-of-mouth.

production photos from 100 Years of the History of Dance. Performer: Joseph Simons.

When you approach a project to direct or to choreograph it, what would you say is your top priority when going into your process?

Am I serving the story, and does it feel real. Even in the most fantastical story.

I guess the priority is the audience at the end of the day. Which is something that has bothered me about some projects I’ve seen frankly, on Broadway, but not just on Broadway. It feels to me sometimes that when you see work it’s about the director. About look how clever I am. I don’t respond to work like that. Because then I’m like well that is the story? What are we trying to do with this story? And I think people have their styles and I don’t think we can help that but still I think sometimes style overtakes just storytelling.

Also, it has to do with the actors I have. I can’t put something on an actor if they can’t do it well because it’s not real for them. But if I can help draw out whatever works for them that’s going to affect the audience in a very different way from me just placing stuff on top of them.

It’s funny, it’s like I think I come in with ideas but I’m never gonna be a person that’s like this is exactly it! Until I know everyone I’m working with and all those elements, because I don’t think you can. That’s also why it’s cool. For me, what I love about being on this side of it is going— look at all the cool people I get to work with! I can come into the room with an idea but also be like, if you’ve got a better idea in the room, let’s use that! It’s a collaborative process. I’m never going to sit there and be like my idea is the only idea. If you’ve got a better idea then let’s do that because…..it’s better. Hopefully what that does is create an environment where people are like Oh, I’m valued.

What kind of stories do you wish we saw more of on stage, on screen?

I think it’s definitely a question that we have to ask ourselves as artists now: is it my place to tell this story? I think it’s a question that is new that people really need to think about. And if it’s a story you want to tell, then who do you need to get into the room to make sure you do it properly, and what is your place in that project? I think it’s a little bit like going, I don’t always have to be the director. I can be a part of this project and bring someone in who’s actually going to serve that role even better, and I can help it. And that’s just as valid as an important position. It depends on if it becomes less about needing recognition, and being like why am I doing this? Why am I staying in this crazy industry? How am I being useful as a human being?

Who and what inspires you?

I think my friends, in a lot of ways. I’m careful now about who I put a lot of stock into if that makes sense. And so they inspire me because there’s a reason I’ve chosen to value what they say.

It’s funny, I’ve never been a person that idolizes people necessarily, it’s never been my thing. When I grew up, there were a lot of female comedian duos, that are now what, in their 50s? I remember watching them and because I saw them doing their own thing, writing their own material, that inspired me.

And when I was younger there were a lot of female choreographers in Australia. There aren’t as many any more. I never doubted that I could go into directing because I actually did see some female directors around, I feel like there’s a lot less now.

I don’t know that there’s one person necessarily, I think that it was just seeing these people work.

We got into a tangent about what happens when we idolize people and they let us down. Do we separate their personal failings from their art? Listen here:

I have some speed round questions! What's the last thing you watched on your screen?

Ok. It’s called Dog House UK. It’s amazing I just found it on HBO last night. It’s about a rescue dog center and I’m obsessed with it. I’m probably gonna watch it when we’re done with this.

What’s the last book you read, or your favorite book?

I’m bad I haven’t read anything for a while because frankly my mind couldn’t take very much. But one of my favorite books is by an Australian author called Hannah Kent. It’s called Burial Rites, and it’s about the last women in Iceland who was hanged. It’s really, really good. It’s definitely worth reading.

What has been the best part of quarantine for you?

I’ve been able to spend time looking after my own health. In the sense that I’m working a lot because part of my job is that and I’m happy to do it myself. I also am able to rest. Ever since chemo I get fatigued a lot faster so it’s good to be able to do that. Also honestly, just having time to do nothing and to not feel bad about it.

What has been the worst part of quarantine for you?

There was something about the beginning of quarantine that reminded me about the way I felt when I was diagnosed with cancer, and I felt everyone feeling it which was this feeling that there was something that you had no control over that could potentially harm you. I felt it and I recognize this feeling. All you can do is manage your own reaction to it and it’s really hard.

For me it brought up a lot of those feelings again of: I don’t know what’s going to happen and I don’t know if I’m going to survive this. And I think that during the protests, just feeling like I couldn’t do anything that I wanted to do to serve that. I felt like because of my health history, I also have celiac, I’ve been very cautious about going outside and being around people. And I felt like I couldn’t do what I wanted to do also because right now I’m not a citizen, so I was just like what do I do? And it’s just this thing about realizing the privilege that you have and you’re like god, you’re fed this lie about how the world is.

If you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?

Like yourself more. You’re actually not a bad person. I think that came from coming out of illness and being like I actually like myself. I think I try my best, and I like myself.

Like yourself more, even love yourself. Which is what I think everyone says, but liking is another thing in and of itself.

Women don’t share their stories enough. Thank you, Emma, for sharing yours with us.

Check out Emma Canalese’s website here, The Artist Experiment’s website here, and the 100 Years of the History of Dance here.

If you go to the instagram page of The Artist Experiment, the live link in their bio is: https://www.theshowmustbepaused.com

Consider visiting and seeing what you can do to take action right now in the Black Lives Matter movement.

Emma Canalese